One of the best parts of Project BlueSphere, from my perspective, is I get to converse with a large pool of sailors and I need some advice. Here is the question:
I have no way of equalizing my batteries and I can tell that my 1 year old bank of Trojan T-105’s is not holding, or accepting a charge as it should. I have 4, T-105’s which are 6 volt batteries. They are hooked up in series to create 2 12v batteries, and those 2 batteries are wired in parallel to create my house bank.
I don’t have a smart alternator regulator and have no way of equalizing my batteries. I’ve recently discovered battery desulphators and I want to know if anyone out there has any personal experience with them. From what I have read they seem to really be the answer to sulphation problems. Here is some text explaining how desulphators work:
“The units utilize patented technology to produce a wide range of high frequency pulses known as RFP ™ (Random Frequency Pulsation) designed to dissolve both old and newly formed sulphate. RFP™ technology, sweeps the entire frequency range known to cause sulphation crystals to resonate and then safely dissolve them. Sulfuric acid, the main component in the sulphate crystals, safely returns to the battery’s electrolyte. The Specific Gravity (S.G.) of the electrolyte is now higher and able to generate more electrical energy-storage capacity than the previously sulphated batteries.
Additional advantages of using sulphation-free batteries include extended alternator and belt life, as the vehicle’s charging system no longer needs to work as hard trying to charge batteries that will not accept high alternator output current due to sulphation build-up. Much lower output current is now demanded from the alternator to keep clean, sulphate-free batteries fully charged”.
To further confuse me here is another link I’m looking at:
http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/batteries/batterydesulfators/batterydesulfators.htm
I’m also interested in the liquid “Equalizaton” treatments like the one at the following link:
http://www.batterystuff.com/battery-restoration/fluid/BE12oz.html
If anyone knows about this stuff please let me know.
I’m heading up to Jacksonville with a buddy of mine late next week. It sounds like he will be crossing with us to the Bahamas as well.
Man is it been windy!
Cheers.
Alex
Published in Alex Dorsey
Alex,
I also have four T-105’s as my house bank…. But looking at the T-105 manuals that only makes for 450 AHs. Now I’m now expert, but look at page six of the manual and tell me I’m wrong. (I would prefer the 840 AH you describe..)
To increase voltage, connect batteries in series.
Example :
Two T-105, 6V Batteries rated at 225AH Connected in Series
System Voltage: 6V + 6V = 12V
System Capacity = 225AH
To increase capacity, connect batteries in parallel.
Example :
Two T-105, 6V Batteries rated at 225AH
Connected in Parallel
System Voltage: 6V
System Capacity = 225AH + 225AH = 450AH
http://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/UsersGuide_English.pdf
Thanks,
Mark
Mark,
Ahh, right my math was wrong however my batteries are connected properly, my problem is with sulphated plates. I’ve allways equalized (over charged) on namaste but not with Splendid because I dont have an alternator regulator that equalizes. I’m thinking the desulphator may be a better way to go then dropping the money for an expensive regulator that equalizes. I do have a smart 3 stage alternator regulator, it just does not have the over charge (equalize) function.
If I remember correctly, safe equalizing is accomplished by the combination of high voltage, but low amperage charging. Somewhere, maybe on of Nigel Calder’s books, I read about being able to use solar panels to accomplish this combination of desired charging characterstics.
Alex, the SB2000 solar controller you have has an equalize setting. You may be able to hook that up on a bright sunny day and equalize.
Barry
Alex, here’s a guy in a similar situation telling you exactly how he did it with his solar panels. Go here to read his blog: http://www.sailblogs.com/member/svthirdday/?xjMsgID=114349
I’ve known Rich for a few years, if there is a way to get something done without spending a nickle he’s the man to talk to. He’s currently in Mexico and finally headed for points south.
Regards,
Thomas
Hey Alex I agree with Thomas abought third day
the method is slow and you need to tend it but it is cheep and bullet proof
also talk to Rich (email) he has returned my ? in the past
he seems very I.T. person
good luck ,it is only math, Joe
When I was doing residential photovoltaics I ran across those desulfinaters. Its been over 10 years but back then the word was they might help a battery that is not too badly damaged. Then they seemed to work about 50% of the time. I could never find anyone that said they would actually work so I never bought one.Are you able to recharge your batts completely on a normal day? If a batt is partially charged the deposits build up and calcify at a rapid rate. I’m sure you know all that. I am leaning toward gelcells myself. yes, initially way more costly. But I bet they out last and outperform lead acid in the long run. We used to say a lead acid battery never died a natural death,they are all murdered. Good luck. My dad used to cut them open with a circular saw, clean them up and epoxy them back together,,, but he was a sorceror and could do those things Wade
Hey yall, splendid conversation. Off the subject, I woke up one day last week and decided I wanted to sail around the word. I’ve never sailed before, exept for the time when I was 10 years old and tipped the sunfish over and almost drown myself. Anyway I been looking at boat to buy but I don’t really know what a good seaworthy vessel is. I was hoping someone could recommend some good brands or models of boats. I’m thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of 38 foot. After liquidating my assets and retirement savings I could come up with maybe $150,000. Then head down to san blas and marry a kuna indian woman and live happily ever after.
Roy L Fukes
A quite lengthy discussion of the equalization problem.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/lead-acid-battery-equalization-6318.html
Barry,
I cant get enough “umph” out of the solar controller. I think my wire size may be 2 small from the panals. Desulphating is also a different process all together and from what I’m learning possibly better for me. The acid crystals that contaminate the plates have different stages. Monthly equalization (maintainance )works if you stay on top of it. I haven’t so the electronic pulse (shock) of a desulphator may work better for me. I’m talking to a guy who builds & designs desulphators and swears one can easily get 8-10 years out of a bank, I get about 3. I’m thinking of writing an article on the subject after I dive into, and use a desulphator. I’ve been equalizing batteries for over 12 years and still prefer lead acid to AGM batteries, I’ve had both. The problem with my current house bank is I haven’t maintained them properly (monthly equalization) and I have more aggressive sulphation then I should.
A quite lengthy discussion of the equalization problem.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/lead-acid-battery-equalization-6318.html
Battery’s have life is determined by cycles, discharge and charge, shallow cycles with an occasional deeper discharge. If your bank is sized properly and your recharging system can top off the bank in a single charging session your batts will last what seems like forever. try not to think in years, think in cycles w
If you do a search for BatteryMINDer, you will see a whole product line of pulse chargers for de-sulphating the lead plates. I have had very good results on battery revival. The only real condition in the literature is that the battery cannot be a lost cause. Mean, if it had a dead cell, some other fatal problem. If it’s just sulphated, the device will slowly charge the battery til it is up to a near-normal charge, then begin pulse charging. It can take several hours to get a battery up enough to allow pulse charge to begin, and then it can continue for several days, so this is not a quick process, but you can set it up and it’s a no-brainer. I have manage to bring back several batteries, including two 7-year-old West Marine gel-type batteries. At the very least the pulse charger has paid for itself several times over already. Now I just routinely pull a battery and let it pulse charge a couple days to help keep it fresh.
If you do a search for BatteryMINDer, you will see a whole product line of pulse chargers for de-sulfating the lead plates. I have had very good results on battery revival. The only real condition in the literature is that the battery cannot be a lost cause. Mean, if it had a dead cell, some other fatal problem. If it’s just sulfated, the device will slowly charge the battery til it is up to a near-normal charge, then begin pulse charging. It can take several hours to get a battery up enough to allow pulse charge to begin, and then it can continue for several days, so this is not a quick process, but you can set it up and it’s a no-brainer. I have manage to bring back several batteries, including two 7-year-old West Marine gel-type batteries. At the very least the pulse charger has paid for itself several times over already. Now I just routinely pull a battery and let it pulse charge a couple days to help keep it fresh.
Sorry for the double post. Didn’t notice my typos til it was too late.
Ill be in stuart 2 nite. give me a call.
Wade,
It is hard to think of battery life in cycles when you don’t live at a dock with a 110 battery charger hooked up all the time. My batteries are recharged by solar power which is not always the same amount of charging power. It is easier (for me) to think of it in averages and seasons.
Cheers.
i understand. At least on a house we could design for worst case scenarios. The space available on a boat makes that difficult. Sometimes i miss the two years in my cabin with no electricity at all. I don’t recall wanting for anything. But then again i don’t have room for 4 chords of wood either. lol Anyway it sounds like tim has had success with Batteryminder. Might be a good addition to your store? can’t wait to hear if it works for you.
Hi Alex,
I am currently land based, live off the electric grid and I am solar powered. I have two systems with a BATTERY LIFE SAVER DE-SULFATOR on both of them. They are not a substitution for equalization. They assist in desulphating the plates as they are being charged. I bought mine from http:/www.backwoodssolar.com They are not marine rated but you could ask them if they can get marine grade. Barry is correct, your solar charge controller should have an equalization setting. You can charge the batteries as full as your alternator will allow and then let your solar panels and charge controller finish the job.
My wife and I hope to be crusers soon, business is up for sale , and the house after that. I have both your DVD’s, bought them thru Lats and Atts Shipstore, and thoroughly enjoy them.
Harry
Alex, glad to see the video tonight………..by the way, the video in your “log” a few days ago was much better quality………..your probably know that already, but it’s a big difference……….
I enjoy following your adventures thu life,,,,,,,,what is it====peace,coconuts, and ???sail??
Hope to sail soon,
Cptn Tye
SV Janthina
Alex,
I have a desulfator (Cost about $65) that I placed on my T-105’s in 2004. That bank is now ready to be exchanged 6 years later. I do not know if the longevity of tha bank was on the pulse desulfator or not, but my new bank will have the same thing. Just some thoughts.
Tom
Well I’ve met a guy who designs and has built desulfators for many years. I have one in the mail and am expecting it in the next few days. I’m off tomorrow to jacksonville to get the diesel motor. I’m only waiting for 1 package and hopefully we will be off for a point south (Key Biscane) to jump off for the Bahamas :)
I really appreciate all the input on Desulfating, thanks guys!!!
Hello Alex, I would like to request a short video of Key Biscane when you get there. My wife and I sailed the area in Feb ’07, loved it, and have made it our destination area for our first winter cruising. It was -2f here this morning and we have 31 months to go so it would be much appreciated to see the bay right now. ;-)
I have followed your adventures for probably the last 2000 days and taking notes on your current re-fit. Looking forward to you solving your solar issues and appreciate the shared info.
All the best, Everett
Hey Alex, I know you are about to leave the shores, just wanted to catch up before you go… I’m surprised you have all these problems with your new batteries… touch wood Namaste’s bank is still going strong…
Just to give you a bit of update on our girl… the exhaust riser pipe finally rusted out at the top so I’ve removed it and am getting a new one made, it came off surprisingly easy as I was expecting some hardship with the bolts at manifold end… with the pipe removed there is tonnes of space in the engine room so I’ll use this opportunity to have a good look at the electrics behind the panel. Nothing wrong with it, it’ll be more of an exploratory work trying to map it out and do some labeling.
I’ve had an excellent cruise last week to the other end of our gulf, a 30 nm shot West. I’ve had a 20+ kt southerly all the way and getting excellent speeds of 5.5-6+ kts. Half the way over Quint refused to steer so I’ve put the smaller ST2000+ and reefed the main.. the small Quintie was doing excellent job with no loss of speed. On the way back the next day the wind was the same or more and I wanted to go for the record and kept full sail… Quintie only lasted the half way when the plastic tip at the end of the shaft broke off leaving me to hand steering. I reefed up the main at that point and hand steered to the end reaching speeds of over 7 kts at times and achieving a record 5.5hrs passage… thrilling. I’ve had the autopilot’s control head checked at the shop and it’s turned up to be naked, that’s after less than 2 years of occasional cruising …that is a worry. It is still under the 2yr warranty but a worry it is. I’m thinking more and more of windvane steering…
On another note, I’m cleaning the water tank ‘cos the water got a bit smelly. And here I’ve got a question to you if you remember…. I’ve started with pumping the water out. I took the hose off just before the filter and connected one of the ShurFlo pumps that I found on Namaste but it wouldn’t suck any water. After bit of checking I’ve found out that the hoses were connected to the filter back to front so I was trying to suck the water from the tap rather than the tank, so, man please explain what is that trick with the hoses because that connection would make the water flow backwards thru the filter. I’m sure you had your reasons… maybe that had something to do with sailing in the southern hemisphere? ;-)))
And one more thing… what would you use to do the tank cleaning? I mean do you know of any good stuff that I could put in the water, rinse the tank and pump out?
Anyway, hope you have a chance to read it before you go offline and give me some clues…
Mate, I wish you and you Family only the Splendid days… I’m sure I’ll find you on some anchorage one day…
Cheers,
Wojtek
Wojtect,
I’m so glad to hear Namaste is sailing well in the southern hemisphere. Truthfully I dont remember the pluming :(
I so miss the simplicity of sailing a small boat. Once I get Splendid to the maintenance phase I will be much happier. She is a big fat home though and filled with laughter. If you give Namaste a wind vane she will love you for ever, she needs one and asked me for one many times.
It’s good to hear from you old friend. Send me a picture of my old girl and I’ll post it in a log.
Cheers mate.
Take care of her.
Thanks for considering and wishing you all the best.
I can’t wait to get our ship together, quit this internet sailing, vicarious existance, and be JF Gone~~~~~~